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Empire State College

A Conversation with Peter Senge

A Conversation with Peter Senge, author of "The Fifth Discipline: The Art and Practice of the Learning Organization"
In a recent interview, Peter Senge responded to some common questions about organizational learning: This interview in its entirety is posted at: http://www.solonline.org/organizational_overview


Peter Senge


Question 1: In your book "The Fifth Discipline" you describe five disciplines that you believe are important for creating learning organizations. What is a learning organization?

Answer: Like any term that gets used a lot it can quickly lose any meaning whatsoever. All the term was meant to do was point at something that we all experience but we don’t give a lot of thought to: what happens when a group of people really work at their best? Most people, whether on a high school basketball team, a theater ensemble or often times in a work setting have been members of teams that have been exceptional and have accomplished things that were really remarkable maybe something most didn’t even think could be accomplished. So often times people have had this experience of working as part of an extraordinary team - the 'team' could be any group of people doing something together - not necessarily an official team. When I was in high school a bunch of us got really excited about our principal being named “principal of the year” in the Los Angeles city schools. He was a great guy. We banded together and created a big mail-in-card campaign that went on for about six months. He did win the award, which was neat, but it was the doing of it - the idea, aligning around it and acting - that was really exciting.

When you look at any of these kinds of situations where people say, “Oh yeah, I was a part of a group who did that,” and then you ask, “Was the group that good when they started?" They say, "Oh no, we kind of learned how to do it as we did it.” That’s it. How a group of people collectively enhance their capacities to produce the outcome they really wanted to produce. That's what we want to point to with the term 'organizational learning'.

Question 2: How do you measure the level of success of learning organizations?

Answer: I'm suggesting that at the first level, you look at what people are trying to accomplish and ask: are they much more effective at doing it? And are they having a better time at doing it? While we care about the results, it's really important to ask the second question: are they enjoying learning together? In a time of crisis, people can do a lot in all kinds of settings, but they can’t sustain it. How do you get a sustainable process of continual growth and capacity? With a huge spike in performance, you pay the price coming back down when people are worn out, or people who don’t stick around, or people who become ineffective because they are so overtaxed. The most fundamental assessment is long-term sustainable improvement in people accomplishing what they really want to accomplish. What goes hand in glove with that is that people grow. When all is said and done, you strip away all the measures and all the official stuff it is really easy. You talk to people about how they feel about their work. Are they excited? Are they passionate? I am more excited today than I was ten years ago and I think I have a better network of folks I am working with than I have ever had in my life. You always look for things like that.


(Content from MaryKlinger's personal web site.)